Pro Pinball: Timeshock! Forum

Pro Pinball: Timeshock! works mostly well under Crossover Games v8.0.0 on Mac OS 10.6.0. There are a few bugs, as follows:

a: The flippers occasionally stick in the "up" position.

b: You cannot customize the controls while in full-screen mode. Attempting to do so locks up the screen. (see Tips & Ticks for an in-game solution)

c: Although the game installs fine from the cd, it is unable to read the cd. A No-CD patch is needed in order to play. Additionally, due to the inability to read the cd, there is no music. See below.

Timeshock! came on a mixed-mode Audio/Data CD, resulting in a couple problems due to differences over how Windows and OS X reads them. The cd reads like an Audio CD, but the game data is on track 1, and the music is on tracks 2-33. Windows mounts such cds as one volume, showing the data track like any other data cd but hides the audio session. OS X mounts it as two different volumes, one a data cd, the other an audio cd. As a result of this, the game is unable to read the cd. Firstly, this means a no-cd patch is required to play. Secondly, there is no music to accompany the game "as intended".

Aside from this, the game plays very nicely. I'm running this in Crossover Games v8.0.0 under Mac OS 10.6.0 on a Mac Pro, 2 x 2 GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon with 8 GB RAM.

There may actually be another way around this -- I have the GOG.com release of this title,
which wasn't actually running at all in COG 7.x.x series, however with COG 8.0 it has
decided to play the game....now....

...the GOG.com version uses DOSbox in it's bundle to make this old game compatible with
winXP/Vista, and in their release the music is included (and works). I haven't had a very
close look at how GOG went about this....but hey, if they can do it, perhaps others may
be able to get the original release version working with DOSbox instead, and maybe get the
music happening as well (copying the audio files to somewhere in the game installdir, perhaps
an .ini file or registry tweak is needed as well)....

Of course, this info is only of use to those with the original CD release of the game, but
if you need to know anything about how the GOG version is setup to use DOSbox, just ask and
I'll grep through the installation here for clues. Btw, runs fine under DOSbox all told...

Edit: Now that I look at it a little deeper.....in the GOG version, they use the DOSbox supplied
'imgmount' utility to mount a BIN/CUE style iso image at drive D: to get the music happening. It's
actually loaded from the CUE file, which seems mandatory so the game can find the correct audio
track to play....(no other registry/config alterations are evident)...just FYI sort of thing....

Thanks for the tip. I've known of the GOG version, but hadn't looked into getting it myself due to some reviews saying the resolution is limited to 1024x768. It just occurred to me that this is all that I can get now under Cx Games for some reason, so I am happily downloading it now. Keeping fingers crossed....

Well that was painful. it installed and seemed to launch ok, but when it got to the "Cunning Development" splash screen, it was taking a tediously long time to dismiss it to the next screen. I sat there watching that logo get "erased" one line at a time for about 40 seconds before calling it quits. This is definitely not an option for the Mac. :(

Which rendering mode did you use?

Rendering mode? You mean in the game, or something in Crossover? I never got as far as the game menu... the startup splash screens were just too slow in coming and going.

EDIT: Doh! I totally overlooked the Graphic Mode Setup app that was provided also when installing the game. I'm not having much luck with those though. OpenGL resulted in a lockup when loading the table, Direct3D resulted in similar slow rendering of the splash screen for Cunning Development as before, and similar problems with DirectDraw and Overlay when trying to load the table. I just downloaded Boxer, an app for OS X based on DOSBox... maybe I'll have better luck with that.

John wrote:

Rendering mode? You mean in the game, or something in Crossover? I
never got as far as the game menu... the startup splash screens were
just too slow in coming and going.

Sorry, I should have been more clear...more to the point, it is true that
I do run COG in windowed mode...but what I was actually talking about is
at the bottom of my tips&tricks on this ;

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=3326;tips=1

Btw, I hope you didn't mis-understand what I meant in my first posting here ;
what I was saying was the GOG version is the original version using a DOSbox
wrapper -- what I was suggesting (if someone wanted to try to do it), was
getting the =original= version running using DOSbox...not actually buying
the GOG version as an alternative....

That said, I'm surprized the GOG version -doesn't- work for you on the Mac ;
I didn't think the Mac/linux versions of crossover-games were that disparate
functionally....(perhaps one of our ever-present ninjas heard that remark and
will say something ;)....

What my initial posting here was about, was a something that goes like this..
...(and now that I see how GOG went about it)...install DOSbox (be that the
native Mac port, or the more actively maintained Windows port via crossover(games),
and then getting the game to run in that environment, with a BIN/CUE iso image
arrangement of the audio tracks to mount in DOSbox using imgmount....and....NEWS FLASH....

I just went to reference the DOSbox database entry here...see ;

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=5949

..but what just grabbed my attention was this posting there...;

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=5949;forum=1;msg=61532

Now...to memory, that means DOSbox =was= working with Mac and crossover-games 7.2.x
releases -- the inference there is that the 8.0 release has caused a regression with
DOSbox on the Mac...I was kind of hoping PaultheTall submitted a beta-test report
about this (he probably did)...and regression is an extremely disliked word around
here, but this may explain why the GOG version is giving you issues....

If you're interested in checking something out here, grab the crossover-games 7.2.2
release (uninstall crossover-games 8.0 first I guess) and install that -- from here ;

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/advocate_center/download/stable/

Then install the GOG release of TimeShock and try again -- be sure to report back
here what you find out....(if it works with 7.2.2 then it definitely is a regression
and someone will look at it for sure)...but someone has to 'establish the case' first
and unfortunately I don't have a Mac to try my GOG version on (as noted in the above
posting, the crossover-games 8.0 release did -not- break DOSbox in linux)...

If you could do this, it'd be really helpful, because invariably one of the first things
the devs will ask is "is this a regression?"...then, regardless of result, you can submit
an official support ticket on this issue, and be able to point back to this thread, and
the devs will be much happier because they can see some immediate background on what's
been found and what we've tried ourselves....

I didn't look over the tips/tricks you had mentioned... shame on me! I've been in a rush and fiddling with this in-between other stuff.

I did just try out TimeShock using Boxer, which is an OS X variation of DOSBox of some sort. It installed easy, but I gave up trying to play because when I loaded the table, it was amazingly sluggish. I also didn't get any music, although I need to fiddle with that some more. I did get music with the GOG version, so surely I can get this done with Boxer somehow... I'll have to boot to Windows to make a "proper" bin/cue file I suspect. OS X mounts these hybrid cds as if they are two separate ones, and the backup disk image I have does the same.

I'll look over your tips some more tomorrow and put some more work into this and see if I can make any progress. Thanks!

John wrote:

I didn't look over the tips/tricks you had mentioned... shame on me!
I've been in a rush and fiddling with this in-between other stuff.

I did just try out TimeShock using Boxer, which is an OS X variation
of DOSBox of some sort. It installed easy, but I gave up trying to
play because when I loaded the table, it was amazingly sluggish. I
also didn't get any music, although I need to fiddle with that some
more. I did get music with the GOG version, so surely I can get
this done with Boxer somehow... I'll have to boot to Windows to make
a "proper" bin/cue file I suspect. OS X mounts these hybrid cds as
if they are two separate ones, and the backup disk image I have does
the same.

I'll look over your tips some more tomorrow and put some more work
into this and see if I can make any progress. Thanks!

Cool...definitely look into the crossover-games 7.2.2 thing if you can...

I made cue/bin files from my original cd in Windows (uuugh!) and in OS X, I used Boxer (it's more OS X-friendly than the regular DOSBox is) to mount that and install the game. Worked PERFECTLY! Well... it did using 640x480 graphics. When I boosted it to 1024x768, it was unbearably slow. But yes... full cd music!

So... now I need to see if I can boost the performance of Boxer/DOSBox to allow for higher resolution. Better yet... figure out how to mount cue/bin files the same way in Crossover so that the game can recognize the audio track. No luck yet getting a Windows-based disc image mounter to work for me in Crossover.

Artist Formally Known as Dot wrote:

What my initial posting here was about, was a something that goes
like this..
...(and now that I see how GOG went about it)...install DOSbox (be
that the
native Mac port, or the more actively maintained Windows port via
crossover(games),
and then getting the game to run in that environment, with a BIN/CUE
iso image
arrangement of the audio tracks to mount in DOSbox using
imgmount....and....NEWS FLASH....

I just went to reference the DOSbox database entry here...see ;

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=5949

..but what just grabbed my attention was this posting there...;

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=5949;forum=1;msg=61532

Now...to memory, that means DOSbox =was= working with Mac and
crossover-games 7.2.x
releases -- the inference there is that the 8.0 release has caused a
regression with
DOSbox on the Mac...I was kind of hoping PaultheTall submitted a
beta-test report
about this (he probably did)...and regression is an extremely
disliked word around
here, but this may explain why the GOG version is giving you
issues....

If you're interested in checking something out here, grab the
crossover-games 7.2.2
release (uninstall crossover-games 8.0 first I guess) and install
that -- from here ;

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/advocate_center/download/stable/

Then install the GOG release of TimeShock and try again -- be sure
to report back
here what you find out....(if it works with 7.2.2 then it definitely
is a regression
and someone will look at it for sure)...but someone has to
'establish the case' first
and unfortunately I don't have a Mac to try my GOG version on (as
noted in the above
posting, the crossover-games 8.0 release did -not- break DOSbox in
linux)...

If you could do this, it'd be really helpful, because invariably one
of the first things
the devs will ask is "is this a regression?"...then, regardless of
result, you can submit
an official support ticket on this issue, and be able to point back
to this thread, and
the devs will be much happier because they can see some immediate
background on what's
been found and what we've tried ourselves....

AHHHHH! Regression! NOOOOOooooooooooooooooooo!

Please submit a support ticket if you find that it was working and is not now. We'll definitely look into it.

Also, now is the time to get a regression report in because we are starting to gear up for cx 9.0. We need to know NOW to even have a chance at fixing it for CX 9.0.

No pressure though! ^_~

I've tried running the GOG version of Timeshock under CxGames 7.2.2 under my backup Leopard installation, and it has the same issues as with CxGames 8.0 on Snow Leopard. So I don't think there's a regression. I also don't have the same problems with using DOSBox under CxGames 8.0 that was indicated in the link to the DOSBox forum here.

I mentioned before I'm also trying out Boxer, an emulator based on DOSBox. I got a tip from the developer that, after installing a GOG game in Windows (or Crossover, as it turns out), you can drag/drop the game folder onto the Boxer app and it will auto-import it all, including the embedded disc images. Boxer makes a nice, tidy package containing all the files needed for the game and will auto-run the game executable of your choice. So bottom line... Crossover will be useful for getting ahold of the game folder that the GOG installer creates, but then it's a simple matter of using that same folder with the native platform-specific DOSBox and bypassing the need to use Crossover for playing (and the inherent issues some may be having in doing so, like myself).

John wrote:

I've tried running the GOG version of Timeshock under CxGames 7.2.2
under my backup Leopard installation, and it has the same issues as
with CxGames 8.0 on Snow Leopard. So I don't think there's a
regression. I also don't have the same problems with using DOSBox
under CxGames 8.0 that was indicated in the link to the DOSBox forum
here.

I mentioned before I'm also trying out Boxer, an emulator based on
DOSBox. I got a tip from the developer that, after installing a GOG
game in Windows (or Crossover, as it turns out), you can drag/drop
the game folder onto the Boxer app and it will auto-import it all,
including the embedded disc images. Boxer makes a nice, tidy
package containing all the files needed for the game and will
auto-run the game executable of your choice. So bottom line...
Crossover will be useful for getting ahold of the game folder that
the GOG installer creates, but then it's a simple matter of using
that same folder with the native platform-specific DOSBox and
bypassing the need to use Crossover for playing (and the inherent
issues some may be having in doing so, like myself).

Thanks for the extra testing/checking with 7.2.2 and for the feedback regarding
DOSbox and Snow Leopard -- every bit of useful information helps...

Regarding Boxer, that is very civilized behavior ...ie; the thing about 'importing'
a GOG installation as you describe, cool stuff. Glad to see you ended up with a win
of some kind out of all this :grin:

Artist Formally Known as Dot wrote:

Thanks for the extra testing/checking with 7.2.2 and for the
feedback regarding
DOSbox and Snow Leopard -- every bit of useful information helps...

Regarding Boxer, that is very civilized behavior ...ie; the thing
about 'importing'
a GOG installation as you describe, cool stuff. Glad to see you
ended up with a win
of some kind out of all this :grin:

It was definitely a win... this got me turned on to DOSBox/Boxer, which opens things up a bit. Strangely, I get different graphics options between the installs of the game in Boxer vs. DOSBox, and I'm struggling to figure out why. Copying over the seemingly relevant bits of the config file isn't helping.

I'm still not sure why I can't get 1024/768 res in anything better than 256 colors, and to perform well. I get error messages regarding insufficient RAM, and I know DOSBox doesn't support EMM386 to access more RAM than the baseline 640k, so I guessing that is the problem.

BTW... do you know what exactly what or where that rendering options configuration comes from or why/how it is used? It doesn't seem to be from the original game.

John Vann Posted:

BTW... do you know what exactly what or where that rendering options configuration comes from or why/how it is used? It doesn't seem to be from the original game.

I've not looked at it closely, but I came to deduce it is a GOG crufted GUI frontend
to the dosbox wrapper they've employed. That said, I have (as yet) been unable to find
exactly where/how/what 'graphics mode setup.exe' is doing it's stuff. It's a bit weird,
in that the 'graphics mode setup.exe' seems to remember what you last selected, however
the 'save settings' button is always greyed out (suggesting that it's not going to work
or is unavailable)....

....ok, 'graphics mode setup.exe' is not actually altering any files in the game installdir,
but instead touching something in the bottle registry somewhere...system.reg/user.reg/userdef.reg
are all newly timestamped after running 'graphics mode setup.exe', so this is where the action
is. As dosbox uses SDL to get graphics to screen, probably there's some registry value that
one can change, that alters which rendering driver the SDL.dll library uses...

..that said, there's bound to be differences between what boxer can do natively on Mac, versus
what dosbox can do within the crossover-games environment...(which ostensibly tries to mimic
a real windows environment)...which will be both different again to running the native Mac port
of dosbox...ie; do we have native directx drivers in Mac or linux? No...so that there limits your
options - in the windows version of dosbox, you can rope-in directx and use SDL.dll in one of
Overlay/Surface/Direct3D/DDraw/OpenGL -- so aforesaid 'graphics mode setup.exe' is actually only
relevant to a windows type environment...(or such as afforded by crossover/wine)..

...boxer is based on dosbox ; dosbox is open source ; ergo any one of numerous things may have
been altered/changed in the dosbox source to suit boxer's purposes...and seeing as I don't have
a Mac I can't really comment....

Oh, btw, are you usingthe Mac port of dosbox, or windows dosbox in crossover-games?

Artist Formally Known as Dot wrote:

I've not looked at it closely, but I came to deduce it is a GOG
crufted GUI frontend
to the dosbox wrapper they've employed. That said, I have (as yet)
been unable to find
exactly where/how/what 'graphics mode setup.exe' is doing it's
stuff. It's a bit weird,
in that the 'graphics mode setup.exe' seems to remember what you
last selected, however
the 'save settings' button is always greyed out (suggesting that
it's not going to work
or is unavailable)....

....ok, 'graphics mode setup.exe' is not actually altering any files
in the game installdir,
but instead touching something in the bottle registry
somewhere...system.reg/user.reg/userdef.reg
are all newly timestamped after running 'graphics mode setup.exe',
so this is where the action
is. As dosbox uses SDL to get graphics to screen, probably there's
some registry value that
one can change, that alters which rendering driver the SDL.dll
library uses...

..that said, there's bound to be differences between what boxer can
do natively on Mac, versus
what dosbox can do within the crossover-games environment...(which
ostensibly tries to mimic
a real windows environment)...which will be both different again to
running the native Mac port
of dosbox...ie; do we have native directx drivers in Mac or linux?
No...so that there limits your
options - in the windows version of dosbox, you can rope-in directx
and use SDL.dll in one of
Overlay/Surface/Direct3D/DDraw/OpenGL -- so aforesaid 'graphics mode
setup.exe' is actually only
relevant to a windows type environment...(or such as afforded by
crossover/wine)..

...boxer is based on dosbox ; dosbox is open source ; ergo any one
of numerous things may have
been altered/changed in the dosbox source to suit boxer's
purposes...and seeing as I don't have
a Mac I can't really comment....

Oh, btw, are you usingthe Mac port of dosbox, or windows dosbox in
crossover-games?

I'm using the Mac port of DOSBox. Using the Windows version in Crossover seems a bit extreme. However, in the case of the GOG games (Timeshock at least), using the GOG version of DOS games under Crossover would seem to be the reasonable choice to get the improved rendering environment. The original game does come with SciTech DisplayDoctor, but I haven't seen any improvement from installing and using that, if it even really is working in the first place. LOL!

BTW... just how does GOG's Timeshock perform for you using 1024x768 res? What color depth can you use without performance hits?

John Vann Posted:

BTW... just how does GOG's Timeshock perform for you using 1024x768 res? What color depth can you use without performance hits?

Relative to an AMD x2 2.11ghz CPU & nvidia GS8400 GPU with nvidia 185.18.xx drivers...

65,000 colors works pretty good (65,000+ colors can get a bit clunky)
Graphics detail at high, dot matrix permanent -- lowering the audio
settings helps sound replay glitches & also improves graphics preformance
a bit...

...however, there's -many- graphics options to tweak in options=>graphics=>custom
and it'll take me some time to flick through/try all of them, before I might
discover the 'ideal' settings....

I'll test them all out when I get a spare hour or so to poke at all the switches.
I will post back here afterwards...

Parallels 5 was recently released for OS X with some pretty hefty promises regarding performance. The last time I tried it some 2 or 3 years ago, Pro Pinball didn't perform very well. I decided to give it another whirl and got the demo, then installed WinXP. I tried Timeshock after installing a bin/cue image mounter for kicks, and not only did it play with full music track, but shockingly played very very well. I'm not sure what the state is of Parallels for Linux, but it might be something to look into if you want or need to play in a higher resolution. I had it very playable at 1280x1026 with all details and color depth maxed out, and probably could have stepped it up a notch to the next resolution if it didn't exceed my monitor's capabilities. I looked over the contents of the included inst/gog files (as you know, bin/cue) from the GOG release, and it appears to be identical to the original Windows CD release. So the full Windows version should be installable by utilizing that image.

In the meanwhile, I'll keep hoping that Codeweavers figures out a way for Crossover to utilize the hybrid data/music CDs (or images) for OS X the way Windows does.