Dungeons & Dragons Online Forum

Yesterday after patching DDO to the newest rev I started experiencing increased crashes, similar to what others were reporting - random occasional crashes + >50% crashes during instance switching. I had been running CXG 8.0 until about a week ago, and hadn't had any issues, other than the minor well-known quirks, but then had upgraded to 8.1.4, which seemed to work alright for the last few times I've played DDO.

Tonight after the newest DDO patch + 8.1.4 the game was occasionally crashing within game, and often during instance switching. I attempted a upgrade to 8.2 unsupported since I didn't have much to lose, which completely thrashed DDO (the "This probably will kill your CXG install" disclaimer was true :^)). After playing with it for a bit longer and attempting various downgrades/upgrades and setting combos, I decided to see if 8.0 was still solid.

I deleted all my bottles and CXG, then downloaded CXG 8.0 and reinstalled. The basic process:

1. Install CXG 8.0
2. Create a WinXP Bottle for DDO
3. Set the display settings within the bottle for a stable windowed-mode DDO experience.
4. Install DDO to the bottle.
5. Install PyLORTO
6. Configure PyLORTO for the bottle using the setup wizard.
7. Patch DDO from PyLORTO (did not have to copy in the patchclient.dll this time)
8. Run DDO.

Since the reinstall I've ran two instances, and half of a third (the one I was playing on my PC while waiting for the patch to complete :^)), been in-game for at least 1.5 hours and entered exited several buildings numerous times without a single crash. I also exited the game twice and re-launched since start-up stability was a issue, and it worked fine both times. It seems to be rock solid again on my machine. I'll report back tomorrow or the next day as to whether it is still running well.

My current machine/install stats:
Macbook Pro Unibody w/ Snow Leopard 10.6.2
Crossover Games 8.0
PyLORTO
DDO installed from a rar downloaded off the web a few weeks back.

A update: Tonight I played 3+ hours without any glitches or crashes, other than the known minor window focus quirk it worked exactly as it would on a Windows box (as it did before the last patch/upgrade). Completed several quests and moved in and out of different areas/buildings numerous times. Looks like I'm sticking with 8.0 + DDO for the time being. Working like a champ.

This is really helpful, thank you for taking the time to post such a thorough explanation.

A couple of questions:
I have CxG 8.1.4, how do I downgrade?

I'm still getting used to my delightful new iMAC 27" and am not sure I'll be able to pull off the windowing and such - how vital do you think that part is?

Are the guys who play DDO on their macs in a guild or anything? We should think about a way to say hello when we're in the game. I'm usually on Ghallanda, 8th level Ranger named Appendix.

Okay, found the 8.0 CxG in the Archived Downloads site...

Got it working, with the above described technique. Played for more than an hour, multiple instance changes, no crashes. I had been experiencing crashes even just running around. Definitely more stable in current configuration.
CxG 8.0

In many MMO's I think being able to run in a window is very important. With that said, the structure of DDO and the resources on the Internet to support it are much more limited than games like WoW so I don't feel it is necessary (I've contemplated switching back to full-screen). For me it's mainly just a preference so I can easily switch desktops, check my email, browse the web and have IM conversations without leaving the game.

I'm not in a guild but we are on the same server right now. The character I'm currently playing is named Tolner.

Well, last night was a little different - multiple times, almost always when entering / leaving a building, I got kicked out and the PyLoTRO window said it was looking for the opena32dll again. Is there a way I can solve that issue?

Is it stating that it is looking for the DLL, or is it stating that it is the wrong version? I get that error every time I exit the game, regardless of whether it is a crash or not, so it maybe a red herring when troubleshooting overall stability. There are quite a few posts around the Internet regarding LOTR/DDO running and stability, so there maybe other tips that we can use to keep the program stable. I'll keep poking at it.

I've been watching the machine stats during DDO running, and it looks like it is consuming a crazy amount of RAM (unless the app was developed to use every ounce of RAM possible for caching, etc.). The Wineloader process associated with DDO will grow to 2+GB of RAM used over 20-30 minutes on my machine. I'm continuing to experiment, but run-away RAM usage is one of the suspects I'm pursuing right now.

Alan Caruth wrote:

I've been watching the machine stats during DDO running, and it
looks like it is consuming a crazy amount of RAM (unless the app was
developed to use every ounce of RAM possible for caching, etc.). The
Wineloader process associated with DDO will grow to 2+GB of RAM used
over 20-30 minutes on my machine. I'm continuing to experiment, but
run-away RAM usage is one of the suspects I'm pursuing right now.

2GB+ RAM matches its behavior running natively on Windows. I expect it is storing textures it may need, etc. in memory, common practice in 3D games...

Makes sense, I suspected that might be the case since after watching it for a hour+ it seemed stable between 1.8-2.2GB of total memory usage. Now I'm playing with graphics settings both for the app and the associated Wine registry values, since I can usually force the app to crash if I push my graphics settings ultra/very high, then go into a city area with many people.

The error is: "OPENA32DLL - Still didn't find exact match, picking first"
This is in an output window. I have the option of aborting but haven't yet gotten to playing in a windowed mode so for all I know, that's what it says the whole time. All I know is that is what is sitting there when I get kicked out of the game. Then, if I sit there watching it long enough, it says
Finished
and then gives me the choice of exit or save. Save appears to just save the log file.
I'll try to play in in windowed mode and see what's going on...

Re: RAM usage - When I first started playing DDO on my 6 year old WinXP machine, I had 512MB of RAM. (I know! Ridiculous!) It took minutes to swap between one town and the other. I upgraded to 2.5GB of RAM and it was like a whole new world.

However, the old XP box couldn't escape the fact that it was an old XP box and the new iMAC won a hard-fought contest between a new AlienWare box, a similar iBuyPower box, and the iMAC. The iMAC actually priced out about the same, which surprised me, and when I realized the tower was obviated by gluing everything in behind a GIANT 27" screen, I knew Apple was smarter than Dell for sure.

And, oh by the way, it has 8Gb of RAM.

It would be wrong to say that I bought the computer just to have a more satisfying DDO experience, but it would not be wrong to say I wouldn't have bought it if it couldn't play the game.

The last few days I have tried both 8.1.0 and re-upgraded to 8.1.4 in the attempts of making things as stable as possible. Neither work as well as 8.0. I was hoping there would be a more stable version somewhere beyond 8.0 but haven't found it, but for now I'll stick to 8.0, since it looks like whatever components made 8.1.4 unstable for DDO, were already in place at 8.1.0.

One thing as a observation, which maybe very subjective - When I turned on emulated desktop in the Wine config settings to the resolution I prefer for it seemed the graphics response was better than under standard window mode, and also the DDO "focus" issue doesn't happen, I just click on the window and it focuses properly. Note that I keep all my browsers/email/etc. on a separate desktop, so there is no need to force DDO to the background - it inhabits it's own desktop.

If I decide to mess with it more, I'll probably start with 8.1.4 or 8.2.0 and do a complete reinstall since some of the instability maybe related to the upgrade process/upgraded versions rather than CXG vs. DDO itself. With that said, I'll probably stick to 8.0 for this time and see if I can further tweak it to be more stable.
-Alan

Alan -

The most bizarre thing, from my non-technical perspective, is that sometimes the game is stable for hours, sometimes it kicks me out every few minutes.

I've noticed the same thing, although overall instability is way less under 8.0. I wonder if it has to do with server load/network response times/etc.. Last night I was able to play for a few hours without a single issue, but under under 8.0 I've had occasional kick-outs, which sent me down the graphics/memory/etc. troubleshooting path, rather than the network previously.

Right after I started playing DDO under CXG I thought about installing a packet sniffer to see what types of traffic is going back and forth, and whether there are sometimes gaps that cause timeouts/etc.. Knowing that someone else has a similar issue makes it more compelling to do it. Next time I see unstable periods in the game I'll fire up a network sniffer and see if anything is standing out as a issue.

Maybe we can coordinate - I'll post here if I see major instability/stability, if you can do the same, we'll see if we can nail it down. If we both see instability (or stability) at the same time, playing separate from each other, there is a good chance it has something to do with the server, and how CXG is handling delay/packet loss, or some other such server/network condition. Since we are both on the same server it's a good first test, since that should give us fairly similar testing metrics, assuming both of our Internet connections are good.

First off let me say, I have not been playing DDO for some time now... however, I play LOTRO 4-6 hours a day.
Basic environment is 8.1.4 win; 2000 bottle; Snow Leopard 10.6.2 Both DDO and LOTRO installed from discs.

And yes, the stability issue is identical. Some days I can play with zero problems. Others, it seems like every 20 minutes or so I get "a problem."

What kind of problems -- typically it is characterized by a "freeze" -- nothing in the LOTRO window works. (I play in windowed mode on my iMac and full screen on my MacBook Pro.) In windowed mode, it is clear that there is some kind of X11 issue -- that is to say, the X11 window (the game window) cannot be moved. The only option is to abort and relaunch. Syslog error messages imply some kind of X11 issue -- but nothing is a clear finger.

My feeling is that the problem is graphics related. On my iMac, I have found that if I power-cycle (not just reboot) the iMac before a session, I don't see any problems. I can not only run the LOTRO window, but can run Safari and Excel and flip back and forth between the different windows with no issues... as long as I stay out of "graphic change" areas -- like instance/server boundaries.

I'm a member of the Old Timers Guild and recent discussions have confirmed that others on Windows PC based machines see these same kind of "graphics" glitches. Certain buildings are "instances" -- you enter the building and go into never-never land... exit the building and some portion of the building no longer exists, and usually, you can't get back in.

So in short, yes, I had serious issues upgrading my MacBook Pro from 8.0 to 8.1 because I had upgraded the Mac OS on that system since tiger and it was full of all kinds of "artifacts" from programs (typically video viewing) from old releases. Completely wiping the OS and doing a "virgin install" solved all of the seriously weird CXG issues I was having. By the same token, my iMac was upgraded only from Leopard to Snow Leopard and never had any problems going from 8.0 to 8.1.

But since I've been playing both DDO and LOTRO since pre-beta days and always on the Mac through CXG, the "stability" issues don't seem to have changed -- some days its good, some days its bad. I have not been able to find a pattern.

Almost forgot, In addition to the Freeze, I also periodically crash OSX -- spin-locks !!! (for those of you who know what they are, it is clear that they are pure OSX Snow Leopard issues.)

On this afternoon, been having a lot of kick-outs... Sunday, about 3:30 CST.

Another odd thing happens sometimes I haven't seen mentioned here - is it only me that gets into taverns sometimes and the door isn't there on the inside to get back out? Occasionally there is no furniture, no doors, although the people are there...

I just finished playing for about 2 hours, not a single crash. Multiple instance changes.

Just got done with another 2 hours or so, no problems at all.

Per William's note I rebooted before this gaming session. Crashed three times in about a hour, including once in middle of running around a city.

I have exactly the same experience - sometimes it's rock solid, sometimes it's just the opposite. Last night, which may have been during prime game-playing time (i.e. servers maxed out) it was kicking me out during most instance changes.

I'm continuing to get intermittent crashes. Today it crashed 3 times in about 20 minutes, twice running along in public areas. I had just fired up the machine, so a reboot wasn't the issue. I'm going to start to spend more time on video settings and potential network issues.

I feel your pain. I'm having these exact issues.

It ran fine under CW 7.2 and 10.5.8. Under 8.x and Snow Leopard it crashes frequently, and as far as I can tell my settings are the same.

Unfortunately, I can't afford to downgrade, since Guild Wars won't run right on 8.0 and that's my #1 game.

Nom wrote:

I feel your pain. I'm having these exact issues.

It ran fine under CW 7.2 and 10.5.8. Under 8.x and Snow Leopard it
crashes frequently, and as far as I can tell my settings are the
same.

I assume you have raised support ticket(s) about this problem? If not then the problem can only be fixed by accident, complaining on the forum is easy but if you can consistantly get a problem to occurs then the devs can get decent log data to hopefully rectify the issue.

I have a question -

I was just reading the website, and it specifically says Crossover is stable and Crossover Games is fast. Has anyone tried running DDO with just regular Crossover? My hardware is so fast that I'm sure I'd have a satisfying game experience even if there was some loss in framerate. I played for a few minutes on my WinXP box, just cuz the random crashing is getting very old, and it was so horrid (graphics, etc) that I went back to the Mac, crashes and all...